Your opinions on this (NS and Xtian Bm releated)

Tommy Tee · #1 07-13-2005, 05:01 PM

Quote:

FROM TERRORIZER MAGAZINE

Before you print another load of letters giving platform to religious types or right-wing extremists, may i remind you that if the chritians and nazis had their way in the first place, rock n roll (and most certainly metal) would have never been allowed to exist, either for being too sexual and satanic or too 'negroid' or some such nonsense. the kids ignored them in 1955 and they should certainly ignore them now.

discuss.

UnholyMenace · #2 07-13-2005, 06:40 PM

In 1955 nazi thingy was still pretty actual so i understand this part of the story - to tell some German jew, who lost all his family because of holocaust, that there is a new style of music that promotes these nazi ideas - i thik it would have been pretty rough. It still was 1955 - it isnt strange nowdays as we see.
But i cant understand the last part of the story "...and they should certainly ignore them now." - i think that if you write something you should be as liberal as possible. If you say that one thing is better than other just because you have no idea what different lifestyles represent, then yuou shouldnt write at all. I know nazi ideas are bad and we really shouldnt promote it, but people should realize that there is this thing called NSBM in metal scenery and there is no way you could push it out somehow. NSBM is agrssve and raw - in my opinion they are getting better and bettert than your usual BM act. True BM spirit is somehow faiding away - or maybe it is just my stupid idea. You see young people wearing this corpse paint and scream out that they are satanists - "real" BM fans who only listen CoF, Dimmu or some other way overrated "BM" band. Real BM still exists but to some it is still too underground and maybe also too primitive to someone. m not saying that go and listen NSBM - its just that if people say certain things they should have some ideas to back them up.

Ok i hope it didnt go too long, boring and unreadable..just my ideas at the moment..

Tommy Tee · #3 07-13-2005, 08:15 PM

the "and they should certainly ignore them now" comment was because over the last few months a big fuss has been kicked up in the errorizer letters oage over a review that refused to actually discuss the music because of the christian theme.

Quote:

I know nazi ideas are bad

thats a naive thing to say. thats not a fact so you can't 'know' it. many people see the nazi ideology as a good idea and i can somewhat appreciate their point of view (don't label me a nazi for simply researching nazism and making an informed opinion on it. im pretty far left politically)

my opinion on this (seeing as i didn't write much in my previous post) is that xtian BM is simply pissing all over black metal. it makes it seem to ordinary people that black metal is accepting of other ideologies and this makes it more socially acceptable as a music genre, thus making it more commercially accessible. it basically makes it seem as though all these anti-xtian bands can't back up their ideologies because there are similar bands singing about christ
NS music i can accept because it makes it less commercially accessible and will hopefully scare off a few of the scenesters because nationalism isn't "cool". anything that makes black metal less politically correct makes it less commercially accessible (less 'cool') is a godsent in my opinion.

This does not mean i support the ideologies of the NS bands. im not trying to be kvlt or whatever with this post, i just don't want BM to become fashionable, watered down and see constant albums of teenagers who have no interest in the music apart from being fashionable. the second roadrunner starts releasing black metal, ill slit my wrists.

[long boring post. feel free to ignore it]

UnholyMenace · #4 07-13-2005, 08:35 PM

I guess you are right when you say that my sentence "I know nazi ideas are bad" sounds a bit naive. But if we talk generally about nazis then first thing that comes to mind when talking about them is holocaust and hate towards other races and also religions. I think that it is pretty funny tat there are loads and loads of people around who claim to be nazis but actually have no idea what this ideology is really about. They just say that I hate jews and now im a nazi - every ideology should have some sort of tolerance limit - thge things they did during WWII is a step too terrible in my opinion. Sure we can talk about Christianity and how they killed millions of people just to spread theyr religion - religion they say is so pure and harmful. So the point is that when i wrote that "I know nazi ideas are bad" I really ment how far are people willing to go to make theyr ideology come true.

I guess Hitler blew up the whole thing for future nationalists - its now pretty common to hate Christity (in metal community and outside aswell), but if you say that you hate jews then from that point on you are nazi and somehow responsible for all the crimes they did during WWII.

I guess there should be some sort of institution that makes BM less "cool" - a far cry from a big and deep hole. At least there still are pretty many underground BM acts that try to make old style BM and also maintain the true spirit.

Tommy Tee · #5 07-13-2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

I think that it is pretty funny tat there are loads and loads of people around who claim to be nazis but actually have no idea what this ideology is really about. They just say that I hate jews and now im a nazi

kind of similar to how religious people blindly follow the beliefs that their parents told them without even considering the facts and the stupidity of religion. how many religious people seriosuly consider their belief? because if they did wouldn't they think about how unrealistic the bible is? or the stories of any religion. i would presume that most nazis would honestly believe in the nazi beliefs rather than blindly following or just to try and justify their racism.

Quote:

I guess there should be some sort of institution that makes BM less "cool" - a far cry from a big and deep hole. At least there still are pretty many underground BM acts that try to make old style BM and also maintain the true spirit.

theres no real way that this can be done. the more BM tries to be underground, the more they will attract the kvlt kiddie posers. i guess thats better than it becoming a genre based on roadrunner records designing a bands image and music so it is little more than a way of selling an image to impressionable teens.
in other words, BM is doomed to popularity. a lot of people ive talked to about this have said that their will always be a good underground scene even if BM becomes popular. i doubt it. look at death metal in the late nineties. or hardcore punk now. both of those scenes had a few bands that are good and keeping 'true' to their music. But they're basically dead music scenes because look at what 'punk' means nowadays (emo kids that all look the same).
lets just make the most of BM before it dies because it will. the punk scene will never be as good as it was in the 80's and the death metal scene will never be as good as it was in the 85-95 period

[long boring kvlt rant]

UnholyMenace · #6 07-13-2005, 10:13 PM

At least there will always be the legend of BM and also bands that remind us what BM really is or was.

I guess that BM is one of the most listened metal style these days - and if we look closer then metal overall is getting more and more popular. People who listen some weird music groups like Korn and Slipknot and call themselves true metralheads - a negative part in metal scenery, but still a certain part of it. There has always been people like these - just that there are more and more of them these days.

Just put your favourite BM CD playing and forget that BM is "cool" now :P

Tommy Tee · #7 07-13-2005, 10:34 PM

yeah, there will always be the 1000's of older BM releases so even if it becomes complete shit then at least i can still check out all that old stuff. in fact, i don't really pay a great deal of attention to when thr music was actually released. it would be a shame though to think that there will be very few good black metal releases ever again if it did become commercial and then it would be hard to find them because of the thousands of popular generic BM bands doing nothing more than selling an image.

and let those little nu-metal/core kids call themselves 'metalheads' if they want. i prefer not to call myself a metalhead. im a serious music fan who just happens to listen to mostly metal and would prefer not to be assocaited with people who think metal is about dressing the same as everyone else, and going to concerts to swing their arms around and show off.

anyway thats off-topic. where the hell is everyone else on this forum :?

UnholyMenace · #8 07-14-2005, 10:33 AM

I guess im not the only one who listens metal because of the music - sure i go to concerts and also dress a bit metal, but in the concerts I just sit or stand somewhere in the corner and just enjoy the music.

But still one question remains - why BM? Why is it that BM is getting more and more popular?

I guess Christianity has changed dramatically over these past few hundred years - before reformation it was pretty unusual in European countries to say that you are an atheist, because it was just too tabu. Just compare Protestants and Catholics today. Church has lost all its power and with that Christianity is falling also. There has been loads of other religions that have died out - just look ancient Egyptian and Greec/Roman religion. Egyprian religion lasted thousenda of years - i guess they all thought that it will last forever - the same thing goes with Christianity these days. People think that it will last forever, but i think it is falling and falling pretty quickly - people dont belive anymore, because they are more realistic i guess. Actually i dont belive in anything at the moment - its just too weird to think that there is a God or Satan who effects our life - if id see one, maybe then i would :P

Tommy Tee · #9 07-14-2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnholyMenace

But still one question remains - why BM? Why is it that BM is getting more and more popular?

all types of music become a fad for a short while, thousands of bands do the same thing, roadrunner gets invloved and the genre gradually dies become of so much generic rubbish. this happened when death metal became popular back in early 90's. happened to nu metal back in late 90's and is happening to metalcore now. genres that can potentially be good become crowded with too many bands doing the same thing so good bands end up going un-noticed.

the same will happen to black metal if it becomes popular and i think it will because too many bands seem to just be complete posers (i call it the myspace.com-blackmetal syndrome)

. the only reason that black metal hasn't become a fad already and died is because of the socially unacceptable parts of it. in fact, earache were going to start signing black metal bands back in 93 until varg made BM uncool with the murder/church-burning/nationalism. so thank varg that BM is still reasonably good.

long story short: BM will become cool with teenagers who have no real interest in the music apart from being cool. rubbish bands with a cool image sell loads of records. genre becomes uncool as new fashion comes out a few years later. BM dies.

don't believe me? how many nu-metal bands are selling a lot of albums now in comparison to 3 or 4 years ago?

UnholyMenace · #10 07-14-2005, 03:18 PM

Future seems pretty dark for BM and for people who really like it. At least i know some bands that really want to maintain the real BM spirit in theyr creation - im not sure how well they do it, but i guess the idea is still worth mentioning. And also bands that are pretty well known in BM scenery that have totally forgotten what BM used to be. Corpse-paint and screaming dark words in the deep forests are'nt so used anymore i think. Sure we can think that maybe these things are'nt so important in BM, but for me - more underground and rawer the better. If people make music just because tahey want fame and money then they are'nt worth my time - you have to make music, because its just like a part of you - the spirit and emotions that come with it.